Who is indigenous to India? Who is aboriginal to India? Who is a foreigner? Who is a native? This straightforward question has drawn a lot of ire over the decades because of how politically charged it is. In this article, we must attempt an unbiased and fair analysis that judges popular notions of aboriginality using a consistent standard. Till date, there doesn’t seem to be consensus in India. I argue this is because of epistemic lethargy as most popular newspapers and journals on both sides of the political spectrum have not spent much time in defining the label. This relative haziness around who is indigenous helps serve political purposes in some cases and is just dismissed as common-sense in others. Before you start reading this article, I recommend you to
Good article but it assumes that there were actually a separate group or race called "Aryan" - which is wrong. The idea is a colonial hangover. Arya were those who followed a Vedic life as opposed to other citizens who were "anarya". They were never a race or distinct grouping. sadly Indians have internalized western Indological concoctions.
I believe this is merely a method of categorizing people according to their place of origin and migration. I will admit, though, that the term's original use had racial overtones. But from a scientific standpoint, we can refer to them specifically as Aryans due to their genetics, distinct culture, and widespread migration.
So, why would nomadic steppe peoples praise the Volga exactly? That’s not their food source (they don’t grow food they are nomadic lmao) - cattle is. In Brahmin diets milk does play a massive role and cows are traditionally revered in Indian culture. A steppe invasion thesis perfectly works with this, but why would a settled civilization make milk a large portion of its diet?
I agree but it all sounds too simplistic due to lack of ancient DNA from India from Paleolithic and Mesolithic period. They are much needed to get better picture.
It's interesting that Australian aboriginals seem to carry Y-DNA haplogroups that are closely linked to Y-DNA R, so the picture is all to confusing currently.
You keep using the sequitur "Aryans and Harappans". This dichotomy is the horcrux that holds the soul of the "Hinduism is foreign" narrative.
Witzel keeps insisting that there is no Harappan literature. Every sane archaeologist worth his salt (Kenoyer, Shinde, BB Lal, Possehl) can vouchsafe that (and they have done) there is no Steppes archaeological site in India.
The "Hinduism is foreign" narrative is the rightful patrimony of all those who keep plugging Aryan Invasion/Migration/Tourism theories. The fields have been ploughed and watered. The saplings planted. Now don't decry the harvest.
A "Label Discussion" will not break this logjam. The horcrux has to be destroyed. The whole corpus of Vedic literature waits for an archaeological assignment. The Harappan world awaits its voice.
It's not true, archaeology suffered from a post-WW2 scare where they refused to acknolwedge the role of migrations and population turnover and instead said cultural diffusion is responsible for innovations or changes in the archaeological record. In this hazy time, it was easier for nationalistic indian archaeologists to go around claiming "No evidence for Aryan Invasion"
I don’t think the invasion thesis makes Hinduism any more foreign than Islam is to Iran, or Buddhism to China, or Christianity less essential to America. Every civilization has adopted ideas that were once foreign to it become extremely integral to it. This just seems like nationalist subconcious inferiority frankly. Iranian nationalists are perfectly fine repping Islam and considering it essential to their country.
Perhaps Indians are just scared of the fact our own civilization needs a great reformation and overhaul. We are stagnant, weak and corrupt. Much of our economy is not advanced manufacturing or large internationally competitive firms serving domestic markets but IT consulting… We want the cope of a faith, without trying to understand where it came from, the pain and conditions of our ancestors who created the faith. Ask ourselves what is it for, what’s the wisdom. Our enemies do this all the time!
Hello, you write "For all practical purposes, these Rigvedic Aryan people considered themselves indigenous to the Indian subcontinent"
There is no need to write 'For all practical purposes'. Rg Vedic aryans speak only of Indian geography, mention no 'migration' from outside the subcontinent. Unlike Turkish Turks or Hungarians or non Indian US people, they have zero consciousness of being immigrants. It is preposterous and mischievous abuse of Indology, by politicians or academics, to characterize Aryas in India as immigrants
They aren’t being characterized as immigrants. No more than Japanese in Japan who displaced indigenous populations are considered immigrants. Or Turks in Western Turkey. No, the idea is Hindu tradition came from a nomadic steppe culture which had no relation to *any* geography before the invasions overturned the stagnant old order of Indus. We have proof of this in terms of language groups
Much needed post ;
I personally agree with Witzel over other scholars so in total agreement with your piece.
But even if we grant that RV was composed outside Punjab majority of Vedic tradition still is composed inside the subcontinent.
Even aside from that it's the self conception that matters more than actual ancestry. After all we are all Africans.
Wonderful.exactly my thoughts. Too much politics of this subject really makes everyone to loose nuance.
Good article but it assumes that there were actually a separate group or race called "Aryan" - which is wrong. The idea is a colonial hangover. Arya were those who followed a Vedic life as opposed to other citizens who were "anarya". They were never a race or distinct grouping. sadly Indians have internalized western Indological concoctions.
I believe this is merely a method of categorizing people according to their place of origin and migration. I will admit, though, that the term's original use had racial overtones. But from a scientific standpoint, we can refer to them specifically as Aryans due to their genetics, distinct culture, and widespread migration.
Literally it’s a language group
So, why would nomadic steppe peoples praise the Volga exactly? That’s not their food source (they don’t grow food they are nomadic lmao) - cattle is. In Brahmin diets milk does play a massive role and cows are traditionally revered in Indian culture. A steppe invasion thesis perfectly works with this, but why would a settled civilization make milk a large portion of its diet?
I agree but it all sounds too simplistic due to lack of ancient DNA from India from Paleolithic and Mesolithic period. They are much needed to get better picture.
It's interesting that Australian aboriginals seem to carry Y-DNA haplogroups that are closely linked to Y-DNA R, so the picture is all to confusing currently.
Can you please tell me what's the genetic of nepali Brahmin and chettry? Also did they migrated from India to nepal?
The second link for Dr Witzel's work is broken.
Fixed!
Even the first link has rotted. Can you please replace both links with archived version from Wayback Machine
You keep using the sequitur "Aryans and Harappans". This dichotomy is the horcrux that holds the soul of the "Hinduism is foreign" narrative.
Witzel keeps insisting that there is no Harappan literature. Every sane archaeologist worth his salt (Kenoyer, Shinde, BB Lal, Possehl) can vouchsafe that (and they have done) there is no Steppes archaeological site in India.
The "Hinduism is foreign" narrative is the rightful patrimony of all those who keep plugging Aryan Invasion/Migration/Tourism theories. The fields have been ploughed and watered. The saplings planted. Now don't decry the harvest.
A "Label Discussion" will not break this logjam. The horcrux has to be destroyed. The whole corpus of Vedic literature waits for an archaeological assignment. The Harappan world awaits its voice.
It's not true, archaeology suffered from a post-WW2 scare where they refused to acknolwedge the role of migrations and population turnover and instead said cultural diffusion is responsible for innovations or changes in the archaeological record. In this hazy time, it was easier for nationalistic indian archaeologists to go around claiming "No evidence for Aryan Invasion"
Most archaeologists have now self-corrected, accepted the role of demic diffusion and even acknowledged that Kossina is smiling from his grave. See this, for example: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/abs/kossinnas-smile/8ABA3BD9132B7605E8871236065CD4E3
I don’t think the invasion thesis makes Hinduism any more foreign than Islam is to Iran, or Buddhism to China, or Christianity less essential to America. Every civilization has adopted ideas that were once foreign to it become extremely integral to it. This just seems like nationalist subconcious inferiority frankly. Iranian nationalists are perfectly fine repping Islam and considering it essential to their country.
Perhaps Indians are just scared of the fact our own civilization needs a great reformation and overhaul. We are stagnant, weak and corrupt. Much of our economy is not advanced manufacturing or large internationally competitive firms serving domestic markets but IT consulting… We want the cope of a faith, without trying to understand where it came from, the pain and conditions of our ancestors who created the faith. Ask ourselves what is it for, what’s the wisdom. Our enemies do this all the time!
Hello, you write "For all practical purposes, these Rigvedic Aryan people considered themselves indigenous to the Indian subcontinent"
There is no need to write 'For all practical purposes'. Rg Vedic aryans speak only of Indian geography, mention no 'migration' from outside the subcontinent. Unlike Turkish Turks or Hungarians or non Indian US people, they have zero consciousness of being immigrants. It is preposterous and mischievous abuse of Indology, by politicians or academics, to characterize Aryas in India as immigrants
They aren’t being characterized as immigrants. No more than Japanese in Japan who displaced indigenous populations are considered immigrants. Or Turks in Western Turkey. No, the idea is Hindu tradition came from a nomadic steppe culture which had no relation to *any* geography before the invasions overturned the stagnant old order of Indus. We have proof of this in terms of language groups
What do you think nomadic even means? Nomads don’t grow food on the Volga!